Need help lifting a J22 without a lifting eye. December 18, 2007
Posted by Joe in Racing in Jackson.trackback
Here’s an interesting problem for those of you that read this blog. We just added a “new” boat to our fleet. It is hull 1259 and looks to be in excellent condition except for one minor problem. As I was explaining to the new owner how to connect a lifting strap to the keel lifting eye, he didn’t quite follow. So I climbed down into the cabin to show him…hmmm. No eye. No bolt. In fact it is broken off at the hull level with no exposed threads! I told Horace this wasn’t good news if he is planning to easily lift the boat. So I scratched my head for a while and suggested he call J/boats or TPI for suggestions.
But thinking about this later and discussing with some of the other guys in the bar, where all good ideas are spawned, a couple of suggestions were.
- Just lift it on another keel bolt, if there is another bolt with enough threads exposed.
- Drill into the top of the keel and drive another large threaded anchor in and then place another bolt inside to attach a lifting eye.
- Use a sling to lift
- Just ramp launch it and we’ll drink a beer and discuss how to get it out tomorrow.
So if you have an idea, post comments below. How many threads do you need to lift 2000 lbs? Or is it practical to try to set another anchor in the keel head and expect it to hold?
I think for the short term Jackson situation – just ramp launch. I helped John V. take his boat out this week with no problem. If he has a bow eye, then problem solved. If he does not, use the tie off system with lines leading from the stern to the bow. We have all done both methods before.
Only if he plans to travel does this become a serious issue in some venues.
Most important issue is “Get On The Water and Start Racing!”
I keep thinking about this anchor idea. I have also seen industrial strength adhesives that apparently works well. So maybe an anchor combined with the glue?
The problem he is going to have ramp launching is that he has a triad 6-pad trailer. It’s a good trailer just made for lifting on or off. I am a little concerned about tying lines to the back cleats and putting that much pressure on them. He’s got to get really deep and I don’t know that the ramp is long enough to accommodate this.
I called Waterline Systems [401.682.1661] on another matter, and they have a retrofit bar and eye system that attaches to the keel bolts. I have already turned Horace on to this solution…
Mike Trindade, their Parts Manager, is extremely knowledgeable, and he used to be with TPI, the builder of Horace’s and my J/.
Yep, I have a retrofit kit. This boat only has one keelbolt with enough thread. The aft keelbolt is sheered off at the hull so unless they have changed the retro I don’t think it will be useful. I really think someone must have torqued this bolt so hard it sheered.
First, thanks for the help and the hospitality as I recently joined JYC and brought my J22 (1259), Red Stripe, to the parking lot. Several of you generously helped raise the mast and offerred suggestions recently. Much appreciated !
Re the lifting eye problem, I’m considering two options: 1) attach an eye bolt to the forward keel bolt and lift with a slightly different balance point or 2) use an external sling with one strap forward of the keel and another strap aft of the keel meeting above the companionway about the same place that the lifting strap does. The lifting bar from Waterlie will not work because it requires use of both 5/8″ keel bolts. Pros and cons of both options are appreciated.
In the meantime I’ll ramp launch (with a slight elevation in the water level) and may yell for help with the retrieval.
Today a new problem ! In trying to loosen and remove the forward 5/8″ nut from it’s keelbolt, it completely broke off !! I was using channel lock pliers with only moderate pressure on the nut, and it snapped off. Obviously, the bolt was severely weakened before I got to it !! So, several new problems:
1. How secure is the keel attached to the hull, without the aid of the two aft and larger nuts??? I’d rather not loose the keel to the mud of the Rez! Can the keel be refitted with new bolts? Can the bolts be replaced without removing the keel?
2. Re launching: I’m now limited to ramp launching or using a sling around the hull. But the concern here is the potential sideways pressure of the sling as it lifts off the trailer. Anyone have experience with this?
Hmmm. That’s not good. I think you should contact either J-Boats or Waterline for some ideas. My first thoughts are that the keel should still be OK hanging on the two bolts, however we don’t know how strong they are do we? Or all of these keel bolts may have been stressed through over torquing.
First, I would call the fellow you bought the boat from and put him on notice you are not happy and will he take the boat back. Obviously somebody knew something about the condition of the first keelbolt.
Second, if the first doesn’t work, I think I would now consider drilling into the keel from the top and set two new industrial strength expansion anchors deep into the lead combined with an adhesive if necessary. Then drop a threaded bolt into the anchor that you can use to lift the boat on both anchors as necessary. Obviously test this before swinging out over the harddeck. I would also solicit some of our fleet engineers as to how practical the anchor solution would be. Mart, Robert, Cardy?
Third, throwing the straps around the boat can work two ways. JYC has some large straps for lifting boats using the big cradle, but the mast would have to be down. This isn’t a big deal, raising the mast in the water is just a little trickier.
Or if the cradle is too high with the straps then take the cradle out of the set-up, use the same straps and insert two 2″x8″ boards between the port and starboard sides of the straps to help keep some pressure off the gunwales. Then tie the tops of the straps closer together to lower your lifting point.
Now you need a lift in the harbor. Contact Ken Allen on this.
After a number of calls and conversations, here’s an update on my keel bolt issue.
The keel is adhered to the hull with epoxy glue, then fiberglass bands are laid over the seams, and then it is faired. There are 5 keel bolts that are torked down from the inside. All bolts have at least 3″ of threading on them and may be threaded all the way down into the keel.
It was recommended by three sources (Muller Marine in Annapolis who works on 22′s; Mark at TPI customer service who was MOST helpful and knowledgeable even tho they no longer handle 22′s, and Broomfield and Sons in Providence, RI who manufactures the keels for J22′s) that the best option would be to dig out some of the “filler ” around the two aft bolts so that an oversize nut could be put on and then add a short stub bolt to the top of the oversize nut and attach the lifting bar to both of these. This area of the keel apparently has enough filler to be able to do this. All sources recommended this over drilling into the bolts, adding an anchor and then a smaller bolt to lift by.
Re my concern about the keel becoming loosened, I was assurred that this is highly unlikely because of how it is attached to the hull. They also noted that when removing these keels, thye usually have to crowbar them away from the hull even after all nuts have been removed.
Re external lifting straps, all sources concurred that this was NOT feasible unless I used a rectangular spreader bar above the companionway or unless the lifting point on the harness was at least 15 ft above the boat. Neither of these is very practical.
So, I’ll be ramp launching for the short term at least and investigating the bolt extension solution. I hope to be able to get a harbor lift in the not too distant future but $ concerns prevent that at the moment. I know there is one that may be for sale. Is anyone aware of others that might be for sale or where the boat is not used and the owner would be willing to rent me the lift and put their J on my trailer??
If anyone is interested, I cna provide contact names and numbers of all of the folks I spoke with.
Well that’s really good news about the keel bolts. I didn’t know this. So there is no concern from any of these sources that the existing bolts would still be weak below where they broke off? Did anyone try to guess why they were so brittle?
Here’s some free advice, have the boat insured before you lift.
For those of you following this story, here is a link to the USA J22 site with some more comments about keelbolts. http://usaj22.hypermart.net/blog/?p=78
Well, here’s the brief version of what I hope will be the final chapter in the keel bolt saga. For a detailed version, see the latest posts in the J22 forum.
I’ve used a hole saw and drilled out around both aft keel bolts – with a minor but crucial OOPS on the aft-most one. I then attached coupling nuts and washers onto both bolts and Ken Allen has epoxied down into the holes and around the coupling nuts. I will be adding a lifting bar and glassing in under the lifting bar to give the keel extra strength. Don’t know if iI will use the bar for lifting….to be determined.
Thanks to everyone who offerred suggestions and help !!
My oops was that I drilled a very small hole thru the hull while in the water. Thanks to a very rapid response and expert hep from Ken Allen we were able to pull the boat without incident — except for a flat tire putting the trailer in just to the west of the finger pier. So, be sure to put your trailer in as close to the hoist as possible. There’s some nasty rusted metal strips next tot he finger pier.
I’ve got pictures if anyone is interested.
I have the same keel problem with my J22. How is your keel doing? How do you lift or get your boat in and out of the water? Have you tried hoisting since adding the lift kit, or did you epoxy it in place as mentioned in your blog?
John, to date I don’t believe Horace has tested this yet. Essentially he is using the same two keelbolts that were original to the boat and would now be lifting on two bolts instead of just one.
John,
I have installed the lifting bar or glassed in under it or tried using the liftbar/hoist. I trailer sailed for a while, then “borrowed” a lift in a slip, and am now installing a permanent lift.
I’m a bit nervous about trying to hoist with the bar b/c of the unknown factor about the strength of the two keel bolts. If I set the lifting bar in place and glassed in around it, I woudl be pretty confident it would be OK. However, it would sit up a bit high (have to modify the floor boards a bit) and I don’t know what the torque on the bar would be like.
You might “test” it a few times while hoisting – keeping it low and over the water so that if it gave way the damages would be nil – a big splash.
Otherwise the remedy is rather drastic – remove the keel and have new bolts installed.
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